April 14, 2022, 7:48 PM Johnny Depp and Amber Heard were both violent, according to the former couple's marriage therapist. I agreed., What did you understand, Mr. Depp to mean?, She initiated fights. I'm listening. 1-Depp v. Heard: Johnny Depp Opening Statement . And it's just that they're fighting and she has a hard time. . Los Angeles, CA. Additionally, she offered some impressions of the couple's relationship and behaviors. Then last night, Monday, she slapped him as he sat there talking incoherently. 2005-2023 Healthline Media a Red Ventures Company. You're a whore. She's reporting just in the first session just how bad the relationship is, just how mean they are to one another. The practitioner's primary taxonomy code is 103TC0700X with license number PSY9217 (CA). ", This makes it sound like Johnny has maliciously baited Amber. Request an Appointment Primary Location. Question (40:06), "This was, as I said, Ms. Heard talking on the phone to me. No closed fist. The way that this practice played out for this couple provides an example of how it can backfire.). OVERVIEW; PHYSICIANS AT THIS PRACTICE ; OVERVIEW ; "Dr Anderson (40:48), "He was not on the call when she made these allegations, was he? Mens experiences of female-perpetrated IPV. It is a common justification for domestic violence and other violence. Any underlining that appears in the transcript excerpts is added by me to draw attention to that portion. she slapped him as he sat there talking incoherently. They're confusing, as you've seen or you haven't seen, actually. He had been doing a lot of, he was fucked up, as she would say, on a lot of drugs. I'm talking. She showed me photos, but she also came in and showed me in person., Other than the bruising on her face, what other injuries did she show you?, I don't remember. I think there's other data that will support this. "Dr Anderson (40:39), "She initiated that one because I think she felt demeaned and threatened. I don't really remember. ]Question (52:49), Yeah. Dr Anderson's notes and testimony explicitly provides psychological reasons for Amber's physical attacks on Johnny several times(32:44)(33:42)(40:39), but there isn't that same attention to trying to explain why Johnny would hit Amber. A sound bite that came out of Dr Anderson's testimony is that Johnny is reported to have said "She gave as good as she got.". This "blame the victim" mentality when it comes to abused men is reminiscent of what DV activists say they are fighting againstbut they typically ONLY fight against it when a woman is the designated victim. Dr. Anderson: Each threatened [to walk out] and stood up. The session notes are completely redacted so it seems there was nothing about DV discussed. Dr Laurel Anderson Testimony, Johnny Depp v Amber Heard Def Trial - The truth behind Dr Anderson's notes . They may have been in other places throughout her body. Its the only thing in this clinical session that apparently was about physical abuse or else it would not have been redacted out. Mr. Depp's mother was in ICU. His mother had just died on the 20th.Question (49:26), Well, when he told you that there was a fight on April 20, 222 birthday, was that Ms. Heards 30th birthday?Dr Anderson (49:37), And is he telling you that he arrived late for the birthday dinner party and there was a huge fight?Dr Anderson (49:47), I believe I'm quoting. Within a couple of days of the Dec 15, 2015 phone call session, Amber goes to see Dr Anderson in-person. 13. This was her talking out loud, trying to strategize for herself., "Doctor Anderson, have you ever seen this document before? -Ann. It was all about Christmas, and her therapist telling her one thing. And this refers to a session that was just you and Ms. Heard, correct?, And this call, which was just between you and Ms. Heard and not Mr. Depp involved, that occurred on or about December 15, 2015?, And was it just shortly after that call when Ms. Heard showed you pictures and actually came into your office, is that right?, So Ms. Herd came in on December 17 and you saw bruises on her face, is that correct?, Was that bruising that you observed similar to the bruising that appeared on the photographs that she showed you?, You testified that what you saw in person was similar to what you saw in the photographs Amber gave you, correct?, When she came into your office on December 17, what did her face look like?, What I recall is not purple, green and blue, but just a darkening, so kind of a darker gray-blue sort of thing. Johnnymay never have known that Amber was telling Dr Anderson anything about DV until after their therapy was over and he received the information from other sources. I know she came in in person to show me.Question (55:24), Did she show you photos or did she show you both? During the 1st session Johnny and Amber had with Dr Anderson, Johnny mentions that Amber hit him. Dec 15, 2015 -- This session was discussed during testimony. Patients can reach her at 310-826-9576. Was chaotic violence, but gave as good as she got. What does that mean? It is unclear to me whether Dr Andersonexcuses Amber's behavior oris notingreasons for Amber's behavioras areas of focus for therapy. [Note: There is nothing to indicate that Amber was threatened by Johnny physically, but Dr Anderson may have concluded that Amber felt threatened that Johnny would leave her because of the accusation of her having an affair with another woman. This June 18th appointment happened after Johnny and Amber's divorce had begun and about 7 months after their last couple's appointment. She knew that what they were doing wasn't healthy. Or at least I thought somewhere around the time she got the injuries. "Dr Anderson (41:43)"I believe I did. The attorneys ask Dr Anderson quite a lot questions about the bruises that she saw. You recall that testimony?Dr Anderson (01:00:16), And you were making motions with your fingers.Dr Anderson (01:00:20), But I was saying multiple I'm not saying one.Question (01:00:23), Right. And I think he talked about how chaotic it was, how violent it was. What did you mean by that? And she slapped him because he was being incoherent in talking about being with another woman. Thank you for this insightful & extensive article. This could be reflected in the note that "there was no more that Johnny Depp was going to say about what he was reporting.". "And if you would just please describe for us lay people what a clinical psychologist does. Click here for the video recording of Dr Anderson's Johnny v Amber Day 3 defamation trial testimony. May 27, 2016: When Johnny did not agree to her financial demands, she filed for an emergency ex-parte Request for Restraining Order even though he is not in the state and will not be back for an extended period of time. I was pretty aware of what he meant. In a brief . If she felt disrespected to initiate a fight and her father had beaten her, she was not going to. (I've worked with couples who eventually disclose information about their relationship that they had agreed amongst themselves to keep secret from me. She met with Amber and Johnny separately and together several times between Oct 2015 and June 2016. I was askedwhy people don't recognize abuse of men by women as a problem several times during interviews about female-to-male partner abuse that I created a blog post with my answer. His mother died on the 20th. I think I know what you're referring to, but if you could please describe that for the record.Dr Anderson (49:05), Domestic violence charges had already been made. Amber and Johnny have competing stories about the March 2015 Australiaepisode, but both versions are very violent. And my recollection is she came in --- she talked to me by phone, and then came in the next day. Dr. Laurel Anderson, a clinical psychologist based in Los. Its great to hear from another therapist who understands that women sometimes abuse men and that it is worthy of attention and concern. Dr Anderson met with Amber alone several other times. He says no more about what she says about him. she slapped him because he was being incoherent in talking about being with another woman. Depp, 58, is suing the 35-year-old Aquaman star for $50 million for defamation over a 2018 op-ed she wrote about being the survivor of sexual and physical abuse. And when left alone to speak, he can describe intelligently what's going on. They don't say a lot. "Dr Anderson (51:57), "Of course. I know she led on more than one occasion and started it to keep him with her, tried to deescalate far more than I think she did.(01:02:36). During her testimony below, she is looking at an exhibit created from her therapy session notes. This was her talking out loud, trying to strategize for herself., She reported always hitting him back as a point of pride, but admitted that she eventually initiated the hitting herself., She reported trying to initiate a fight with him one night by slapping him when she was offended by what he said.". He's complaining, but he's also just kind of describing what the relationship was. I agreed.Question (01:02:33), What did you understand, Mr. Depp to mean?Dr Anderson (01:02:36), She initiated fights. And again, that entry is from a session where Mr. Depp was not physically present, correct? And I just want to focus on the one snippet on base, page three. Or at least I thought somewhere around the time she got the injuries. Depends on if it's an individual or a couple. Was chaotic violence, but gave as good as she got.. 310-206-6232. So there was how many one inch size bruises were on her face that you observed?, I'm not a good person to ask this question to. No closed fist. She hits back and now starts it for pride because father hit her. Would you please tell us what you meant by that?Dr Anderson (32:44), So when she said in terms of physical abuse that he hits her, a no close fist means an open hand slap to me. 1. Discussions of the noted sessions appear in the transcript later in this post. Philadelphia 76ers Premier League UFC. The content on Healthgrades does not provide medical advice. Interesting about March 2015: Mar 8th is when Johnny's finger was severed in Australia during a fight between JD and AH. But that doesn't fit with Amber "interrupted him," "He says no more about what she says about him," and "She can't let him talk.". Mr. Depp's mother was in ICU. About an inch., So is it fair to say those are small bruises in more than one place? No closed fist. Heard had a jack hammer style of talking. (Name-calling from one party and physical assault from another party could be labelled mutual abuse if the definition gets stretched. Hamelsays that a key part of designating abuse as mutualis that both partners must behave abusively toward the other to the same degree. (This seems surprising. Who slapped who? Dr Anderson (40:01), "I actually know what happened." Dr Anderson appears to have a policy of meeting with each member of a couple separately for an intake session in order to provide an opportunity for each to speak freely about things they may fear bringing up in front of their partner. Dr. Laurel Anderson, PHD is a Clinical Psychologist in Los Angeles, CA. Do you know did Mr. Depp talk about his fingertip with you before June 18, 2016?, Click here for the video recording of Dr Anderson's Johnny v Amber Day 3 defamation trial testimony. His mother had just died on the 20th.. That's kind of a direct quote. Or at least I thought somewhere around the time she got the injuries. Please note: comments must be approved before they are published. What she reported to me, which was an improvement that she didn't participate.. I don't remember that well.Question(59:06), Is that, Dr. Anderson, consistent with your understanding that there were no other entries on December 15 or December 17 relating to physical abuse?Dr Anderson (59:20), There was nothing about physical abuse. Are they makeup? What I said previously, and I'll say it again, he's kind of doing a retrospective of trying to understand a relationship and is characterizing it as chaotic and violent. And I think he talked about how chaotic it was, how violent it was. Here is Dr Anderson's testimony about the Dec 15, 2015 phone appointment with Amber: [Reading from the session notes.] So what did you mean?Dr Anderson (41:39)"That was her asking me. Looking insidethe therapy this couple receivedcan provide valuable insight to the general public, therapists, and others in the helping professions. The relationship is not good. And he tried to deescalate far more than I think she did., During her testimony, Dr Andersondescribed Johnny and Amber's relationship as "mutual abuse.". He hits her. Dr. Laurel Anderson is a Psychologist - Clinical based out of Los Angeles, California and her medical specialization is Psychologist - Clinical.She practices in Los Angeles, California and has the professional credentials of PH.D..The NPI Number for Dr. Laurel Anderson is 1053464016 and she holds a License No. It is difficult to understand why physical safety would not become a crucially important part of the joint couple's appointments. 2. She showed me photos, but she also came in and showed me in person. You're getting fame from me. Dr Anderson's mention of "mutual abuse" got a lot of attention in media after her testimony. I also transcribed and analyzed Dr Hughes testimony from the Depp v Heard trial: https://annsilvers.com/blogs/news/psychologist-dr-hughes-testimony-for-amber-heard-exposes-dv-gender-bias. About the ratings: GreatSchools ratings are based on a comparison of test results for all schools in the state. The content is something I make notes on, I care about. During the deposition, both parties had a chance to question the psychologist. in more than one place. So I took everything I thought and believed conceptually about them. Whoever's story you believe, if Dr Anderson didn't know about this event, she was handicapped in understanding, assessing, and counseling this couple. Did she deny it? He had been well controlled, I think, for almost, I don't know, 20/30 years, and both were victims of abuse in their homes, but I thought he had been well controlled for decades. I think you've described this in the course of your testimony, but I did want to ask you about your sentence: She reported always hitting him back as a point of pride, but admitted that she eventually initiated the hitting herself. Is the she you're referring to, Ms. We need to be careful to not label abuse as mutual when one party is acting out of self-defense against the aggression of the other party. 9911 W Pico Blvd Ste 1070 Los Angeles, CA 90035 (310) 826-9576 . Find Providers by Specialty Find Providers by Procedure. She reported trying to initiate a fight with him one night by slapping him when she was offended by what he said."Question (54:37), Then in the last sentence: It was also at this time that she showed me photos of her injuries. When did Miss Heard show you photos of her alleged injuries?Dr Anderson (54:54), Well, to the best of my pulling together the information I wrote down, I'm saying it was right after that fight. From Dr Anderson's testimony related to a phone session with Amber on Dec 15, 2015: [Reading from the session notes.] And I just want to focus on the one snippet on base, page three. 12-Depp v. . Huge fight. . Dr. Laurel Anderson speciality, credentials, practice address, contact phone number and fax are as below. What's the reason for your visit? We'll leave it to you two to arrange a time.. "Male aggression toward females produced higher ratings of aggressiveness and more negative evaluations of perpetrators than female aggression toward males.". "Dr Anderson (46:48), You write: Fight on her April 22 birthday. Question (40:44), "And this is what she reported to you, correct? Patients can call on the below given phone number for appointment. There may have been more, but I don't remember.Question (56:10), And you weren't present during the alleged physical injuries, correct?Dr Anderson (56:19), So the only basis you had with respect to the cause of the injuries was what Ms. Heard told you, correct? In a prerecorded deposition played for the court in April, Los Angeles-based therapist Dr. Laurel Anderson recalled marriage counseling she led with Depp and Heard back in 2015. Will she have advantage if she leaves him but files with police for abuse first? Was that a question that she asked you?Dr Anderson (42:52)Yes. ], I think it is important that people recognize that reasons for behavior don't excuse behavior. Check with the applicable school district prior to making a decision based on these boundaries. Did you ask what Mr. Depp meant by gave as good as she got? ", "He was not on the call when she made these allegations, was he?" She releases a story toPeople magazine. Oct 14, 2015 -- These session notes are completely redacted so it seems there was nothing about DV discussed. And I just want to focus on the one snippet on base, page three. Dr Anderson met Amber alone 4 times but only met Johnny alonetwice: once for an initial intake appointment and once onJune 18, 2016. ", [Side note: Amber's accusations against Johnny re DV in both the UK libel trial and US defamation trial spend a lot of time attacking Johnny for his use of drugs and alcohol, setting up the idea that his drug use fuels his violence, but here we have Amber telling her therapist that she initiated a physical fight because Johnny was "fucked up on a lot of drugs."]. Honestly, I dont know how to voice some of my thoughts about Dr. Anderson and her approach kindly. Her testimony was presented as a video deposition. I'm talking. You remember seeing the bruises under Amber's eyes?Dr Anderson (01:00:36), Question (45:22)[Reading from therapy notes.] She can be reached at her office (for appointments etc.) BUT domestic violence was discussed in Amber's individual intake session. No Yes Select an available time 9701 SW Barnes Rd, Suite 130, Portland, OR 97225 Wed Jan 18 Thu Jan 19 Fri Jan 20 9:35 am 10:00 am 10:05 am I wasn't looking to memorize it. If she felt disrespected". And she says that she hits back and now she starts it and sometimes hits him first because her history is having been violated by her father physically and just out of pride, a lot of things trigger her. Many don't. Did she deny it? And she gave as good as she got. excusing her violence as reactionary (32:44) (34:53) (45:57) (52:29)(52:49) (53:42). Ill get off the soapbox now, thank you again for this article! Domestic violence against men and boys: Experiences of male victims of intimate partner violence. The second best result is Jessica Danielle Anderson age 30s in Los Angeles, CA in the Vermont Square neighborhood. She hits back and now starts it for pride because father hit her. And Dr Anderson testifies that she did not keep copies of the pictures for their file. It has typically been the case that one member of the couple is motivated to keep embarrassing information from being talked about.). So I did what psychologists do, you go through all of those notes and your brain because it's not as if you're not left with a very clear sense of what went on. She says that she thinks Mr Depp meant or thinks Mr. Depp instigated some of the violence etc. And that one paragraph is still there.". She works in Portland, OR and 1 other location and specializes in. So it gives me a sense of what they're doing at home, they are each reporting, This is what we say to each other., I've read through this transcript several times and every time I get a concerned reaction to"She bites the bait. "Question, "And the him whom she threw acan at. It was all about Christmas, and her therapist telling her one thing. He's also very verbal when no one's interrupting him. The DV community's rejection of the idea of mutual abuse is grounded in their belief that DV is caused by patriarchy. "Question (41:45)"Then you write doesn't want to divorce. "Dr Anderson (41:55)"She loved him. Their dialogue -- he was cut off a lot. ", This violence against Johnny happened when he was supposedly "fucked up, as she would say, on a lot of drugs" and"Mr. Depp's mother was in ICU. What's Wrong with the Duluth Model for DV Treatment? Keep up the good work, Ann. Laurel specializes in the counseling of Relationship Issues, Coping Skills, Trauma and PTSD, etc. You write: Didn't fight on island until last day. I noticed that some people on Twitter were confused because the DV community says there is no such thing as mutual abuse. And you write: The physical violence that occurred between them appeared to me to be mutual., You never actually witnessed any physical violence by Mr. Depp or by Ms. Heard, correct?, Didn't fight on island until last day. They're confusing . It was more that they started into a fight, and I wrote that their process is a back and forth firing at each other., It is possible that Dr Anderson tried to return to the topic of Johnny's physical abuse accusation but Johnny was resistant after the haranguing response from Amber to his first attempt at the topic. A friend of Amber Heard,Christian Carino, introducedAmber to Dr Anderson via emaila couple of times. You remember seeing the bruises under Amber's eyes?, That's what I recall. He's complaining, but he's also just kind of describing what the relationship was. "It was a point of pride to her. And so is it your testimony that she showed you photos of her injuries shortly after the alleged event., Somewhere in the period while she still had injuries. On the other hand, it is also reasonable to think that Johnny's accusation should have led Dr Anderson to ask lots of follow-up questionsso she could assess what, if any, physical violence is present in this couple and the physical safety of both parties. Some people see it as an admission by Johnny that he was just as violent as Amber, and it could be taken that way, butI think that it is quite open-ended as to what Johnny might have meant. Who slapped who?Dr Anderson (40:01), "I actually know what happened. So he's a very articulate man. He had been doing a lot of, he was fucked up, as she would say, on a lot of drugs. 1. Yeah. "Question (42:33)Directing your attention to the last snippet from that session. This was her talking out loud, trying to strategize for herself., A few minutes later in Dr Anderson's testimony, they are discussing her Treatment Summary where Dr Anderson describesthis slap of Johnny as Amber "trying to initiate a fight." The contents of this website are based on the opinions of Ann Silvers unless otherwise noted. ), Amber claims that Johnny smashed his finger himself in a drug-fueled rage. Additionally,Amber dropped by Dr Anderson's office Dec 17, 2015 to show her bruises on her face (photos and in person). . DrAnderson is a long-time couples' therapist based in Los Angeles. Wow! Sheryl Monaughan 46 reviews # 2 of 1320. I think I'm quoting some of this is just my typing of the words he's using while he's talking. She rose to the challenge if he started first, which in my opinion, that had been established throughout the relationship, that she fought as hard as he did. She doesn't go to see her for a session. Select this result to view Jessica Danielle Anderson's phone number, address, and more. He hits her. It is the justification that Will Smith and others gave when Will went up on the Oscar's stage and hit Chris Rock after Chris told a joke that Will felt disrespected his wife. This contributes to a sense that Johnny as an aggressor was not a focus of therapy. Much of the exhibits pertaining to Dr Anderson are heavily redacted. Two things. I don't remember that well., Is that, Dr. Anderson, consistent with your understanding that there were no other entries on December 15 or December 17 relating to physical abuse?, There was nothing about physical abuse. She hits back and now starts it for pride because father hit her.. All rights reserved. InGender Inclusive Treatment of Intimate Partner Abuse: A Comprehensive Approach, John Hamelputs forward "questions to ponder in assessing mutuality: How repetitive or excessive are the physical assaults? The first introduction is March 28, 2015: Laurel, my closest friend Amber on copy, wants to come see you alone first and then with her husband, Johnny. She had rapid fire talking., I pointed out the process to her at some point, and she got it thatno one could actually have a decent dialogue with her if she was rapid firing and talking over and just barraging. In the conversation, Johnny repeatedlystates that he needs to leave wheneverAmber gets physical and Amberrepeatedlycriticizes Johnnyfor taking that stance. From her testimony presented at the US defamation trial, Dr Anderson does not appear to have the advantage we have in hearing the2-hour recorded conversation between Amber and Johnnythat occurred the day before Amber emailed Dr Anderson to set up an initial marriage counseling appointment. . Dr. Laurel Rene Anderson-Cowell, MD Allergist Portland, OR In-person visits Book an appointment for free What's your insurance plan? Johnny and I are back in town and would love to know if you have any availability to see us this week.. Many subsequent news articles grabbed this and ran with it. But I'm also copying down a word here and there. No notes from the session were discussed in trial. Fight on her April 22 birthday. The relationship is not good. Third Party materials included herein protected under copyright law. And this is what she reported to you, correct? While I do believe that some cases of partner abuse involve mutual abuse, the label does not appear to fit Johnny and Amber's case. "When we were going through Amber's, the incidents where Amber described Mr. Depp being violent, Mr. Depp was not present. And that one paragraph is still there. In these individual sessions, Amber is free to portray what's going on in the relationship without Johnny questioning that portrayal. You recall that testimony?, And you were making motions with your fingers., But I was saying multiple I'm not saying one., Right. Johnny's severed fingerrequired surgery and became life-threatening when he contracted MRSA. On island, started to get into something. What were you referring to there?Dr Anderson (45:40)Well, Christmas had occurred, and the goal was they had a lot of people going to his island and they were going to be together. She started violence. After Johnny told Amber that he was divorcing her in May 2016, Amberdid several things: May 21, 2016: She called the police and accused Johnny of DVwhen he was at the penthouse to pick up a few belongings (he had moved out of the penthouse a month before) before leaving the country for a couple of months for work. And he's trying to come to terms with it, and he still loves her and is mourning. Bruce A. Levine Correct?". I don't think she denied it, but what I believe from my notes was that she galloped off in a new direction, Did she interrupt him during your other sessions. There is no mention of Johnny hitting Amber in Dr Anderson's notes or testimony about this phone session. Partner abuse is caused by the power imbalance created by patriarchy: thereforeonly men abuse women. There is no evidence that the topic of DV comes up in theindividual intake session that Dr Anderson had with Johnny alone. --Hines, D. A., & Douglas, E. M. (in press). 4. Did she admit it?, I don't think she denied it, but what I believe from my notes was that she galloped off in a new direction, there was no more that Johnny Depp was going to say about what he was reporting. And you write: The physical violence that occurred between them appeared to me to be mutual. You never actually witnessed any physical violence by Mr. Depp or by Ms. Heard, correct?Dr Anderson (56:48), And you said that They were each victims of domestic violence, both in their family. However, since anything that wasnt about DV was redacted its difficult to say for sure what she mightve (imo) neglected, so some things can only be speculated. I don't think she denied it, but what I believe from my notes was that she galloped off in a new direction and they continued to talk, and there was no more that Johnny Depp was going to say about what he was reporting. The recording includes many admissions of violence by Amber and demonstrates her abusive tone, attitude, and manipulations.